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Ravi
Shankar:
An Interview With The World Renowned Sitar Master.
Preserving
the tradition and nurturing the future of classical Indian music.
by
Susna De, from the Summer 1999 issue.
“Vishwer
Shilpie”(artist of the world) - these Bengali words are perhaps
best epitomized by the legendary Bengali-Indian musician and composer,
Ravi Shankar. Indeed, this music great has been revered as “the
Godfather of World Music” by the Beatles’ George Harrison
and praised by the media as being “one of the most important musicians
of this century”. Such titles are well-deserved; in addition to
popularizing Indian classical music in the West, Pundit Shankar has
pioneered the realm of cross-cultural music in which he has harmonized
the sitar with Western orchestras, merged Indian classical music with
Bolshoi dancing, and written as well as performed Indo-Japanese works.
Careful to avoid the term “fusion music”, Ravi Shankar has
aimed to preserve the integrity and character of Indian classical music
in his cross-cultural experiments.
From the early age of ten, Shankar has been involved in the introduction
of Indian dance and music to the West. As part of a Paris-based Indian
dance troupe formed by his eldest brother, Uday Shankar- an accomplished
dancer in his own right - the young Shankar toured with the company
across Europe both as a musician and dancer. It was in this troupe that
he met Ustad Allauddin who, for seven years, taught Shankar the sitar
in the traditional Indian guru-shishya method involving a very disciplined
and guru-controlled study in an isolated environment. After gaining
fame as a performer in India, Ravi Shankar advanced Indian classical
music in the West working with noted artists, such as Yehudi Menuhin,
Andre Previn, and George Harrison.
As a fellow Bengali, I had heard many stories about the renowned Pundit
Ravi Shankar. These stories, perhaps slightly exaggerated, depicted
his musical talent and drive. For example, when practicing, it was said
that Ravi Shankar could go on for hours and hours and had to be reminded
to eat or drink water. Also, rumor had it that he practiced in front
of the mirror to avoid facial expressions that might distract the audience
from the music itself. The prospect of speaking with Pundit Shankar,
the legend himself, was slightly nerve-racking, but his gentle, humble
and down-to-earth nature quickly put to rest any of my pre-interview
jitters.
Though his achievements are legendary, Ravi Shankar is not a mere “legend,”
a word linked to the past; rather at 78, Pundit Shankar continues to
be a contemporary ground-breaking artist who preserves as well as furthers
his culture and music into the global realm.
SD:
Tell us how you started out in music and with the study of the sitar.
RS: Well, from the age of 10, I came to Paris with my brother's (dance)
troupe, which you know perhaps, Uday Shankar. At that time I started
playing the sitar in the group along with dancing and playing other
instruments but I was not seriously involved in it [sitar], I was more
of a dancer. It was only when Baba Allaudin Kahn who later became my
guru...he joined the troupe of my brother to tour in Europe as a soloist
along with the group. And that's when I started really my serious training
(on the sitar) when I was 15, and then we went touring in Europe and
England and after one year he went away. He only came for one year.
By that time I was getting to be a good dancer and getting good critiques
and all that. And I was not decided what I [would] do to play music
or dance. But after he went away, it took me another almost two years
to decide and I completely took the decision that I'll leave dancing,
my brother's group and go to him in a remote village called Naihat.
And that's what I did. And I studied with him for seven and a half years.
SD:
You grew up during the Indian Renaissance, a time when many were discarding
British Colonial Influence (e.g. Rabrinthanath Tagore, Nehru, Gandhi)
and returning to traditional Indian culture. Did that era and ambience
affect you and your interest in classical Indian music?
RS: I never had to really go back to my Indian roots, I have always
been closely connected with our tradition, like a bridge. I do believe
that the Indian people, especially abroad outside India, has this new
surge of wanting to know their background and their culture and especially,
I do find, that many of the younger generation. And there should be
something against all the Indian films from Bombay, all the new movement
of pop culture which has taken over Indian youth very strongly - there
is nothing wrong with that, it is quite natural - but along with that
there should be something that should give people some moments of peace
and spiritual feeling which has always been there inside.
SD:
When sending your daughter to a private school in India, both she and
you noted that currently, Indian culture is very Westernized. What about
the Indians in India. Is there a keen interest in classical music?
RS: Yes, there is. But you know, the classical music has always been
limited to the class of educated people. It's like a high form of literature,
it cannot be for everyone. That has always been the case, but since
the independence, we have found that Indian culture has been more known...
So I find that it is the same ratio as it is here: you cannot say that
it is [classical music] popular in comparison to pop, rock or even jazz
for that matter. But you always see that they have filled out houses,
Pavarotti, or Domingo or whoever. In India also, classical music has
its own group of listeners and it is growing - that is the main thing.
It is growing more and more and the younger generation is getting more
interested in it. I feel very happy about it.
SD:
You no doubt have contributed to that interest.
RS: There have been a number of people propagating it [culture].
I give lectures to schools and colleges every year.
SD:
What about the current level of interest from second and third generation
Indians?
RS: I do feel that it is very natural, for the generation brought up
outside, to be fond of rap, pop or whatever but one shouldn't be anti-classical.
SD:
It was a very strict teaching wasn't it?
RS: Absolutely, absolutely! Absolutely in the old traditional teaching
of Guru-Shisho Parampan you know. He was a very hard task master of
old principles and all that. You can imagine that after all this glitter
and glamour and freedom and especially at that age - I was 18 and I
had seen the world already many times over. And then to leave everything
and go back to that hermit life of being a celibate, almost like being
in the old ashramas under such a strict guru - what a strength of mind
I had, because no one compelled me. No one told me, it was my own decision.
SD:
Was it hard, as an Indian musician, to be accepted in the West and did
you have to adapt or change at all?
RS: I was very honest to my music. You can try to visualize the advantages
I had over all the [Indian] musicians is that those 7-8 years of my
life in the West from childhood gave me an insight and understanding
of the Western people at my age - their mind, their attitude, and their
likes and dislikes of Asian things, and ignorance as well. So all that
helped me and knowing French , English fluently with which I could communicate,
I was the only musician who could do it and that's why I took the whole
responsibility upon myself. It was whole different story [with me] because
no musician could talk properly and explain anything - they were great
musicians you know but I was the first one who could do that and I did
it and I'm glad I did it for almost 45 years now.
SD:
Did you have to change the music at all to please the Western audience?
RS: Not musically, not standard wise but of course what I did was "duration
wise". Because in India the very few people who used to understand
music, they sat down and they didn't care about time. One raga could
be played or was played for one hour, two hours. That couldn't be possible
in the West. That's what I did. I kept the proportion without spoiling
the nature of the raga. Because ragas are not fixed items. There's nothing
like five minutes or ten minutes or twenty minutes raga. The raga can
be and has been performed by great artists for even (you know those
old small records - 3 inches thick? Or long period records). It can
be performed for three minutes to fifteen minutes to half an hour or
one hour depending on the mood of the artist because it's not a fixed
thing, it’s improvisation. So, I was very much aware of that not
to give so much to the people in the West so that they could not take
it or accept an alien music. And I used to make them understand, I used
to talk to them and explain to them before you know, what raga this
is, [whether] it is pertaining to early morning or late evening or whatever
or spring season or rainy season and also show them the ascending and
descending structures, the notes that it uses or it doesn't use and
things like that helped them to understand and that's how I brought
the [music] to them very quickly.
SD:
What inspired you to perform and compose your cross-cultural music?
RS: Oh those are my compositions which have nothing to do with the old
tradition of my
playing the sitar on the stage. I am a composer also. And that's why
many people completely mix up my two different identities as a performer
of classical traditional music and also as an openminded composer. I
have attempted so many things from the last fifteen years in way of
orchestration, in way of writing music scores for films, ballet and
opera things like that - for radio, for television, making special musical
pieces for long playing records. But one thing I want to tell you, make
a note, that I have never tried to do fusion or cocktail or gimmick
music. What I have always done is basically Indian, either Indian traditional,
or contemporary, or even Indian folk. And I have used non-Indian instruments,
I have used non-Indian musicians even but never tried to make a hodgepodge
thing which I personally don't believe. But that is the big thing nowadays,
you know, everybody is trying out a lot of new things and that is a
very good thing. I am not saying anything [about that]. But I have not
done it.
SD:
Can you explain how you came to work with George Harrison?
RS: [he pauses then chuckles] In my long years of music almost 65 years,
I have gone through phases, as a dancer, ... then to music. Went through
the training in our traditional music and then started touring again
all over the world. Almost for 45 years I've been popularizing all over.
And went through different phases, first of all it was the hippie phase
and George Harrison became my student in 1966. It all happened together
at the whole hippie period. The young generation, the revolt and everything,
the drugs and everything and that was the second phase when my sitar
became very popular with the young generation. I was already well-known
as a classical performer but that gave me a whole new thing as a popular
artist. And George simultaneously was very much a fan of my music and
the whole Indian thing. So he came from the world of Rock-and-Roll and
pop music but he himself gradually changed into a very serious lover
of the tradition of India in all forms, spiritual philosophy, music,
everything. So that has been the connection between George and me. But
me being an Indian born, as a Brahmin knowing our traditional ways,
well being born into it as well as playing traditional music, for me
it is always easy to go back to our past.
SD:
Why is that?
RS: Because I see, myself, what the whole world is going through. It's
worse today than ever before. There's the additional problem for having
it [happen] so fast than what was the normal procedure for centuries,
the whole drug scene and everything and all the freedom which has led
to unfortunate sad incidences which is causing lots of problems. And
to balance that, I'm not a preacher (I'm not saying anything against
what they do) but I think that, like people take tranquilizers, medicines
to be a comfort to the mental procedure, my album hopefully will provide
an alternate path to comforting and placating the mind and its many
concerns in these changing times.
SD:
Could you describe your daughter, Anoushka's, involvement with your
music?
RS: She is very, very talented. She is playing the sitar. She actually
assists me nowadays everywhere where I am playing. She has been learning
for a long time. She also is having piano lessons, western music. She
is very talented. This was also a chance where I initiated her for the
first time to assist me, to write down all the pieces that I was composing
then and there. And sometimes to help me with conducting while recording
is going on.
SD:
Does she get nervous when performing with you?
RS: No. No she's “cool as a cucumber”!
SD:
What can we expect from you in the future?
RS: Well, I have lots of plans. We might do this whole thing with a visual
aspect of the stage, some people have suggested. I have some plans to
bring some ballets which I did a few years ago that were shown in England
and India. We'll see.
by
Susna De, from the Summer 1999 issue.
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Susna
De is currently finishing up her Master's degree in neurology and
is about to embark on a degree in international health. Ultimately,
she plans to leave the ivory tower and would like to work for the
UN or the World Health Organization. In addition to collecting degrees,
she is a photography enthusiast partial to people photography and
is a big fan of the tennis pro, Boris Becker. Of Indian origin,
she has been raised in many countries, including Saudi Arabia, England,
and the US. She is a fanatic traveller who is addicted to living
in and experiencing different cultures. Susna currently makes her
home in Washington, DC. |
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2000 Dream World Media./Urban Mozaik Magazine™ All rights reserved.
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